Feb. 4 issue
Seeking a tribe, megachurch weighs its Anabaptist options
By Kelli Yoder Mennonite World ReviewOther Anabaptists were also contacting the church.
“It put on our radar that there were others thinking like us,” Eddy said. “That was the beginning of us realizing that our theological perspective had really changed on things and we were no longer tracking with the conservative evangelical megachurch way of thinking.”
In 2007 Boyd spoke at the Anabaptist Vision and Discipleship Series conference at Hesston (Kan.) College.
“While at this conference I sensed very strongly God telling me there was some sort of relationship I (and possibly the church I pastor) was to have with the Mennonites,” he wrote on his blog afterward.
David Boshart met Boyd there. As the executive conference minister of Central Plains Mennonite Conference, he’s been the contact Woodland Hills seeks out to learn more about MC USA.
“At least once a year, sometimes twice, David’s stopped by our church when he’s in town and spent time catching up and praying together and asking more questions,” Eddy said. “We’ve come to feel a real kinship with David and his wife, Shana.”
Shana Boshart joins the meetings in her role as the conference minister for Christian formation.
David Boshart said: “It’s just been times of fellowship and exploring together, regardless of whether the relationship ultimately comes to a place where they join MC USA.”
In Boyd’s view, the conversations are about asking: What can we do for the Mennonites, and what can the Mennonites do for us?
“I hope that this relationship will continue to develop,” Boshart said. “I would love to see the day when they would decide to join MC USA. I think it would be a great gift to them and us.”
Comments
-
I've been a "pod-rishoner" of Boyd's church for about a year now. To be honest, I've found Greg's teachings to be as close to Anabaptist theology as I've heard in a long time. We need this fresh perspective from the "outside" of the ethnic Mennonite community to help us restore some of what we've lost in the last 500 years.
If I was in Minnesota, I'd be the first to welcome Greg in... and I'd do so, humbly, realizing how much I need to learn, myself, as a born-and-bred Mennonite.
-
Will Pastor Boyd and his community necessarily have to become pacifists if they join with the Mennonite community in an official way?
-
Jason,
Actually, if you read anything by Boyd or listen to his pod casts, you'll find that he already teaches a Christo-centric pacifism...
-
Hurrah for standing up to the right wing militarists! Hopefully this church is consistent about violence, which means not supporting "progressive" political policies that also require Glock-work, such as:
• Enforcing The Republican Heritage Foundation's corporate welfare Romneycare (now with more leftist whitewash as ObamaCare) that empowers the modern tax-collectors and publicans, or...
• Enforcing Philistine politics of despotism (1 Samuel 13:19) on my neighbors who would rather share the very source of political power in an Egalitarian manner, as the Second Amendment intended.
-
Actually, Brian, ya need to read Boyd's "Myth of a Christian Nation" and other related works to find out what he really thinks about politics...
-
Actually, Robert, I applauded Boyd and expressed no disagreement with him. So thanks for the customary "Internetz Homework Assignment," I might get a roundtuit sometime.
But you're avoiding what I said.
I was using his critique of Right wing politics as a springboard to address the Leftist politics of the Mennonite Church--policy that relies just as much on a "sword" as of the militarist Religious Right politics.
That the Mennonite church uses Romans 13 to consecrate the necessary government violence to effect Liberal Mennonite political agendas--whilst trying to wash their hands of it in the Gospels--is something neither you nor anybody else here has yet had the intellectual courage to address.
Is anybody up to it? Is I Peter 3:15 a dead letter now?
-
Brian, you might like some of my stuff... head over to my blog http://abnormalanabaptist.wordpress.com/ and use the category search thingie to look for things under the category of "politics". Of particular interest, perhaps, is this one.
http://abnormalanabaptist.wordpress.com/2012/03/01/wait-is-that-what-it-says/
I'd rather not cast specific judgment on church policies and such... reason being is that it's what Paul would say in Romans 14 are "disputable" matters. My article points out that any questions of government involvement, either at the individual level or the denominational level, must be handled as an item of conviction. If you aren't convicted of it, perhaps it's not a problem. We're all on different paths in this journey towards being like Christ... some folks come at it from different directions. God is faithful to bring us all in, through Christ.
-
We Mennonites need new Anabaptists in our midst to rejuvenate our own Anabaptism. For Boyd and his congregation to join the Mennonite Church would throw a major wrench into the ongoing myth that to be "Mennonite" requires a certain kind of cultural identity. Especially if we're thinking globally and theologically, that fiction is breaking down. In the church, theological identity is what matters--and the more neo-Anabaptists join the Mennonite church, the better we can understand that.
-
Thanks for the invite, Robert, I've already availed myself of your blog; your exegesis of Gran Torino was excellent. I've seen it a few times, and can't believe I missed a few details you pointed out, e.g. the significance of the basement "confessional screen." Good observation!
Onto what we're talking about: I don't think it is "disputable" that Government = Violence.
Carl von Clausewitz observed that "war is the continuation of politics by other means."
George Washington said it even more directly, "Government is not reason, nor eloquence. It is force."
Yes, Government = Violence.
For Mennonites to call upon the Government to redeem societies ills is calling upon Violence.
Even more pernicious to an Egalitarian Power Sharing ideal--which Jesus arguably preached--is the leftist Mennonite penchant of late to parrot White House talking points in an attempt to concentrate "power into higher, righter [or Lefter, no difference], and tighter hands." (GHWBush, 1992)
To implement a gun-grab--which will sharpen hierarchical class differences between the ruling caste and common folks--will take violence, possibly a civil war.
Recognition of that likelihood is not a right wing conspiracy theory.
"We need to repeal the Second Amendment. Whether that can happen without some kind of civil war is another question." ~huffingtonpost.com, 12/26/2012
Do liberal Mennonites want to hasten the Kingdom of Heaven with a Civil War 2?
-
Another podrishioner here. Reading Greg's books and listening to him regularly has been inspiring, enlightening,and challenging. I found that the only church in Colorado Springs that both taught and lived what Greg has been teaching was the Beth-El Mennonite church in Colorado Springs - a city full of evangelicals who see no tension between killing the enemy for the interests of the USA and loving enemies for the sake of the Kingdom. Now 58, and with no historic connections to anything Mennonite, I feel I have found my home. And the church has welcomed us with open arms.
There isn't a lot of cultural baggage left to this Mennonite congregation. 50% have roots in that tradition, but more and more of us are here because we value the Anabaptist perspective on living like Jesus, loving like Jesus, and believing that God looks like Jesus.
Its funny to read about Greg not having the personality traits of traditional Mennonites. I supposed that's true. Greg is bold and a scholarly theologian, they are generally quieter. As John D. Roth of Goshen wrote in Teaching that Transforms, ""Like much of Mennonite theology, the Mennonite philosophy of education has tended to be more implicit than explicit." (p.23). If anything... Greg is explicit! But he and Woodland Hills will be a blessing to the Mennonite Church USA if they choose to go that way. And they will be blessed by being connected to the MCC and other denominational efforts. The MCC is living out the love of Christ, and WH would be blessed to being connected to these ministries.
-
I question the necessity of equating force with violence. Force deriving from authority only needs to devolve to violence when the person who is under said authority refuses to recognize the authority.
Unless you are trying to equate a statement of ideological persuasion with violence, in which case you are just as guilty of that violence for puruing that course in these comments.
Implied force is not violent, merely suggestions of violence. Thus, when suggesting that the 2nd amendment needs to be repealed, but that may instigate civil war is not promoting violence, it is promoting a less violent society while identifying a potentially problematic process to attain that ideal. It's an alert that the process of changing may be a temporary cause of more issues and we should seek to alleviate those to the greatest extent possible.
Alos, encouraging government to improve society is not necessarily supporting that government or encouraging violence. Since society is already violent, helping to direct that violence in beneficial (and ultimately less violent) paths is an attempt to alleviate the violence of society and the damage it unfortunately causes.
Finally, trying to indicate that Jesus saught for egalitarian society and would therefore support an armed populous able to fend off attackers seems contradictory to the whole "suffering servant" ideology and the non-violent resistance which more often typifies anabaptist pacifism. The question isn't did Jesus seek for an egalitarian society and therefore we should all arm ourselves to prevent, through the threat of violence, the execution of that violence is at best an unreasonable conclusion.
The threat of violence may lead unerringly in the expression of violence, and while that certainly does apply to the force of authority leading to the expression of that force through violent expression, it also indicates that we shouldn't seek to have everyone facing that same temptation.
In fact, this is (as I understand it) why the concentration of force in fewer and fewer hands may be a reasonable (albeit temporally and materially dangerous) conclusion for those whose final hope and expectation is not temporal and not material. This limits the temptation to express violence and thereby minimizes the danger that a society of humans can do to one another.
Ultimately, this devolves into a political argument (and one which is explicitly both Christian and undemocratic), which is why so many people shy away from this line of thought.
-
Let's not forget that Greg and Bruxy are best buds and regularly speak to each other's congregations. My money would be an affiliation with Brethren in Christ.
-
We BIC-ers will embrace Woodland Hills with open arms! Hint, hint, Greg :-)
-
As a mennonite pastor in calgary, I have been so blessed by the teaching of Greg boyd. It was through N.T. Wright, Scott Mcknight and Greg boyd that I have found renewed conviction and passion for a Jesus centered (anabaptist Gospel). I love how Greg connects kingdom theology with personal wholeness and vulnerability. Why are non-mennonite anabaptist flurishing while Mennonite churches are declining in numbers?
-
Mennonite churches are declining in numbers?
I'll tell you how you lost one family.
• I'm not welcome in a patriarchical "conservative" church, with an emphasis on controlling women's Uteri, because I prefer a woman have the freedom to choose for herself, rather than calling down the wrath of the Nordic goddess Hell upon her head.
• I'm not welcome in a matriarchical "liberal" church, with a priority of controlling men's Guns, because I prefer a man have the freedom to choose for himself, rather than calling down the wrath of a secular Police State upon his head.
So in the spirit of the Reformation skeptics like Menno Simons and Luther, I publicly tack my 95 theses (well, not quite so many, LOL!) on the church door. I've backed up my assertions with both the scriptures and with corroborating scientific evidence from scholarly references.
Any response, other than the official rebuff Menno, Luther, and Galileo got?
-
Before I went off andf got myself married to a denominational organization I would take a step back and see where the larger segments of that denomination are headed. I live among the varied segments of the Mennonites here in Virginia and though most are good solid Bible believing and practicing people their denominational leadership is heading more and more into the liberal Christian "main stream." Tolerance is being elevated to the point where the Bible is no longer being followed. The Menonnite people are wonderful, their leadership is on a dangerously out of balance path.
-
Todd, I'm curious if you're an outsider how you know its the leadership heading the church down the wrong path? As a member of MC USA I think that the leadership is actually trying to keep the church faithful to the teachings of Jesus. ....Unless you're referring to actions like anti-racism training, church planting, and reconciliation with other Christians (Lutherans) as liberal stuff? You should probably read Ervin Stutsman's blog (Ervin is the executive director of MCUSA).
-
I'm with Rohrer here... Ervin and others are certainly trying to walk that line of Biblical Christianity. And it, sometimes, makes us have to rethink some things. I was there in Pittsburg and saw and heard a lot of stuff... and, while there are some things I wish we could do better, one thing was certain was that we were doing our best to stay true to what was entrusted to us...
-
I'll echo Kurt above -- we Brethren in Christ would readily welcome Greg and his church. I know that many pastors in our own denomination have (re)discovered Christ's call to nonviolence and Kingdom living/ethics as a result of reading Greg's work. He'd be a natural fit -- and an important voice for the ongoing work of building the Kingdom.
-
I have been a podrishioner since 2007. I am an outsider, raised and now working in the Presbyterian (USA). I was first turned on to Boyd as I was wrestling with non-violence as an undergrad student. I now am beginning to identify myself as a neo-Anabaptist because I feel I have discovered my tribe. I am in the process of prayerfully considering how I might begin the process of discerning what a more formal connection to the BIC or MC(USA) would look like. I currently serve as a young adult director at my PC(USA) church.
Any advice about first steps in this season of discernment?
Comment on the article Seeking a tribe, megachurch weighs its Anabaptist options
Please keep comments civil. MWR editors reserve the right to remove any comment. When posting a comment, you agree to the MWR Comments Policy. Name and comment will be posted; commenters are strongly encouraged to give their full name. Email address is for follow-up only and will not be made public.
Download